Former Republican communications staffer and current MSNBC host Nicolle Wallace has done her time on GOP campaigns and in George W. Bush’s White House, but Donald Trump tends to leave her stumped.

Speaking to a panel of election experts Wednesday, Wallace said ongoing efforts to change election rules and certification laws contrast with Trump’s desperation to appear strong. The reality, she said, is he’s losing.

“I want to read what you wrote, but for Trump, who is so obsessed with the size of his wins and wearing a superhero shirt when he survives covid, it feels like this massive, sort of, telegraphing that he knows he’s going to lose,” she said to elections lawyer Marc Elias. “Just talk about the tactic and what it telegraphs.”

Elias explained that Trump has never really won an election. In 2016, Elias said Trump only won because of the Electoral College. In 2018 he lost the House. In 2020 he lost the presidency and his anger toward Georgia Republicans led to them them losing the Senate.

The latest move Elias has been fighting is the Georgia Election Board’s attempt to change rules about election certification after the state Republican chair suggested it. On Tuesday, they pushed through the new rules.